After roasting - what next?


#1

I realise that you shouldn’t make coffee from the newly roasted beans until after the oils have had time to disperse. My queries are:

  1. How long and
  2. How do you keep the beans meanwhile?
    I usually store roasted beans in an Airscape container but was worried that this might encourage the oils to hang around rather than dissipate. Is it better to keep the beans in a more open container for 24hrs than seal after?

Just asking…


#2

Hi Peter,

Welcome to the IKAWA forum!

Nice that you start of with a topic of hot debate. Honestly the answers I’ve heard to your question range from ‘immediately’ upto ‘a few weeks’. I’m inclined to say (in case of espresso) that at least a few days is not unwise BUT that only applies to espresso and thats my (shared by a few) opinion.

How to store: again debate! The common consensus: no sunlight, as little air as possible (so airtight, dark container) everyone agrees on that (i think). Beyond that I think its save to freeze them (under the right conditions) some however think that is sacrilage.

Finally one remark: you let the beans rest, not to ‘disperse the oils’ but to ‘disperse the build up CO2’ and theres some argument that the coffee ‘further develops itself’ but again: much debate.
The CO2 however contributes to a higher acidity of the coffee and makes it harder to pull a good espresso (because of the pushback it gives during the pull).

HTH


#3
  1. I have had noticeable improvements with an open air rest. I haven’t gone 24hrs but I have gone 8. I’ll give it a try, good fruit for thought. In the container. For me the stuff that is drinkable lasts for almost a month but starts dying off after.

2, I usually store mine the canister or a small mason jar. Sometimes I have to many going and I just use the little tupperware containers you get from Chinese takeout.


#4

well, you could argue that the CO2 release goes faster in open air and ‘further development’ is at its basic a chemical reaction which most likely involves oxygen. That same oxygen however will also make them stale much faster, So yes leaving them in open air for the night probably speeds up the development proces, but then you have to drink your coffee not too far after that.


#5

I’ll need to try some open air resting. Quite often I find day 2 brews to be better than day 1. Opening the bag on day 1 (24 hours or so post roast) brings in some air to the mix for the beans which might be improving day 2 brews.
I might try simply opening and resealing the bag at night time on the roast day.


#6

I am glad I asked! I thought it might be a silly question but clearly not.
I love the Airscape containers but they are very hard to get here in the UK. Have eBay’ed from the USA though.


#7

Hey @peter. I have 3 airscapes, but becuase I roast small amounts now I use ma new storage set from kanso coffee, (30g per glass tube) … and I try to use it in less than a week if possible.
Never tried resting it in open container, I would do that only if I know I will brew it very fast, because I would expect faster degradation too … its connected with oxidation, so … I would not oxidize intetionally :wink:


#8

@pavel Would you eat a steak immediately after grilling?

@peter So what have you found out? Have you made a time experiment to try out your question?


#9

Hmm … actually not as easy one as it might seem to be ;))

Simple unswer might be, no I dont because I have been told zillion times its bad to do so. But its no true in general, i think it mostly applies if you use one way of preparing your steak (used by 99% of people probably, but still).
What I do, is I make my steaks sous vide at 52C … and if I just pulled them out of the bag and served (totally possible though one does not get those maillard layer of tastes) I would not bother at all with resting, there is no strain to be relaxed. But, because I pansear the steaks to get a thin layer of that marvellous maillard :wink: I do also rest them a bit, because my stove is not fast enough (no gas stove here) so I strain the meat a little and resting might help (i still try to be as fast as possible to not to heat the meat more than a few mm, usually the layer is like 1-2mm)

If I used a torch with dispenser (searzall) or heavy pan and high btu gas, i would not bother resting it probably, since I just heated a very thin layer very fast.

Back to intentional oxydation … do you have some chemistry based reason to think that exposing the beans to oxygen after roast would be beneficial? I would think that what ever possitive changes happen after roast are due to reactions between the allready present chemicals that either are not stable and split or react with other make new products over time. But I think oxydation is what kilos the taste in the end … so … why would I hurry to get there?

If I use you analogy, resting the steak would be for me an analogy of giving the roasted coffee some time to round off and mature, but in enclosed container with little oxygen. (Equivalent to aluminium foil wraping the steak to stay warm an moist) and leaving the steak cool down without any barrier would be simillar to me to allowing more oxygen than necessary ;)))


#10

I dono I guess to each his own. I personally rest my steaks after SV (before the sear and after the sear) and I don’t put them under a vacuum while cooking. .

For me I think the coffee beans are degassing a lot in the first 24hrs and then much less so after but still somewhat in the 48hr range too. I’m not in the business so that is the extent of my knowledge. l don’t usually let my beans rest for 8hrs before “bagging”. I usually just let them sit out from anywhere between 30mins and until I remember/can find more containers. Maybe in time I’ll have a more conclusive answer. The beans are always degrading whether by oxygenation or some other reason. We know keeping them in sealed jars (glass or coffee approved container) works to help slow that inevitability down.

I’d say try it out, steak covered vs uncovered vs no rest. I think there is a good amount of difference with a rest than without. So extrapolating that out for this. Regardless of open or unopened container rest before drinking is better than not. How much rest is necessary, I haven’t a clue.

I’m sure there is very well documented, very patented answers that are out there but these trade secrets are prob under lock and key. Personally I think the question for fluid bed/low temp roasters, is not how to “save” from the air/degrading the bean, but how to get it to pronounce its self and its flavors faster.


#11

Ok … i might have a wrong understanding of it, but my understanding so far is, that the fibers contract, squeezing the juices out of the steak when you cut it in that state. After sousvide the meat feels really relaxed, no contraction that I could feel or see. And when I am really fast with the heat (grill heated to max) I also not notice much contraction at all - whilst when pan searing I see it contract and relax after. :slight_smile:

Regarding the time after roast … I dont think there is really any universal truth there. I remember roasts that I loved 1h after roast and ones that I liked much better few days later. I even remember a roast that seemed to be the best after maybe 20 days … so … hard to think there might be one fits all time after roast.

What makes me think opened container is something to avoid, is those cases when I had coffee in a locking bag and did not close it well … in a few days the coffee felt to be maybe five weeks old. I dont think we can avoid contact with oxygen, Ijust dont like allowing it more than necessary … thats all :wink: if I felt it has to be a avoided at all costs I would be using nitrogen, but that is not how I think about it. Its like our exposure to harmfull substances, dont think it can be avoided, but just trying to limit it to necessary minimum :)))


#12

Has anyone used the Ikawa storage jar? I completely forgot about it and just put my latest roast in for trial. It seems to have a button for expelling air on the lid which I hadn’t realised before.
I’m wondering though why it is so big compared to the output of a typical Ikawa roast?


#13

Sure I used it for a long time. I think its so that you can roast two batches or so…
the storage jar is quite ok … though you have no way how to limit the contact with air if you have a little beans inside.


#14

I use it especially if I roast 2-3 batches of the same bean for drinking over the next 3 days. If I roast more I use an Airscape but the smaller one from IKAWA is good for a smaller quantity but won’t keep the beans so long as the Airscape.