Anyone roast into second crack on the Ikawa?


#1

I’m curious, does anyone roast into/through second crack? If so, about how long of a pause is there between first and second crack (on average, since it obviously varies with each bean and profile)?

I tend to think that I don’t ever reach second crack with my roasts, but my naiveté may be getting the better of me–I was reading the visual roasting guide on Sweet Maria’s website and noticed that they claim (at least on their equipment) that the time between first and second crack is only 15-30 seconds. In my roasting experience on the Ikawa, I’ve always stopped my roasts at some time after what I perceived to be first crack, but even letting the roast continue for another full minute never seems to produce audible cracks again. I’m wondering if what I’ve been calling first crack is actually a combination of both first and second crack happening in short succession. I almost never get the oily surface on my beans that is typical of darker roasts, but I’ve also never actually attempted to experiment with second crack roasts to know how distinct of a stage it is.

Either way, I’ve had great coffee from this machine, but I’m curious to know how distinct of a stage the two cracks are in everyone else’s experience.


What have I done wrong?
#2

One of my first issues was getting first and second at the same time and then separating them out. I haven’t had much luck or experience with getting a good darker roast yet. But from a few attempts the ROR the the end was around 20*F. And usually 1C takes some time then there is a break and then second crack comes.


#3

I’ve only tried this once out of curiosity and created a 12min profile. Hit 1C at 8:05 to 9 min then heard 2C at 10.30 to 11:11. So quite distinct. Like you i never noticed any oils on the surface even after 8 days.

The roast held sweetness and a touch of fruit (a Ugandan bourbon) but had a “roasty” note which pervaded and reminded me why I don’t care for dark roasts.

I tried it as V60 at 6 days. Best brew was immersion at 8 days when it seemed less roasty. Maybe it might have improved with more rest.

I then ran a batch on the same profile stopping at 10:30 just before 2C and it was way better for my taste. More sweetness and fruit. No roastiness.

Finally i tried a third batch stopping at 9:00 and that was really nice with the kind of fruit acidity I like.

So it was a useful experiment even if it only reinforced my instincts/prejudices on how I like my coffee


#4

I’m also trying to roast darker and my latest thinking has come to really using the fan rather than time or temp at the end. Specifically for the Marshal Etheo and that type of profile type. But the key is not drastically altering or creating a new fan profile but when in the fruit area trying to just finish 80% < x > 85% starting the fan increase 30-45s before 1C is expected. For me the goal is to get the rich milk chocolate, caramel, nut(?) and really viscous body changing the texture from juicy and luscious to oily and lingering.


#5

Deven, is the Marshal Etheo profile the one you’ve posted elsewhere on here? Or is there an update? I ask because I have a small bag of dry processed Ethiopian beans I’m curious to try it on–I have been roasting with the Hassan and one of my own curves but believe I am possibly getting first & second crack to happen simultaneously, as you mentioned earlier. If you have a profile that causes a separation to occur between first and second I’d be interested to try it.


#6

Here it is, the fan isn’t a flat 80% like the original but yea it’s basically the same one. I would as usual recommend dropping in the range of 5-15s after hearing the very first pop of 1C. And hopefully the first 1st crack starts the series. Here is a write up of some things about this profile End Bean Color and Bean Development are Seperate Issues 🙀.

How I tell if my cracks are together is I’ll hear the loud pops (1C) with little sharp snaps(2C) and when’s I cut open a bean the center is charred.


#7

Thanks, but I’m not seeing the profile itself… Try posting again? Thanks!


#8

Oh man I’m sorry here you go https://share.ikawa.support/profile_home/?CAESEBQgGco9V0yJuJqhY8wVuFYaFU1hcnNoYWwgZXRoZW8gMWZhbjEuMiIFCAAQ9AMiBgiVCBCiCiIGCOoREIgPIgYI7R8Q2RIiBgitKhC0EyoFCAAQyAEqBgitKhDLATABOgYIqTIQzAE=


#9

The time between first and second depends on several variables in my experience. The only time I’ve experienced a gap as short as 30 seconds is when I have a lot of mometum coming out of first crack. Clues to this are if the crack is loud and fast and color change is fast. Typically it’s when I have the temp above 480 or so that it might rush from first to second. I recommend pushing it really far one time - say to 12 min and 515 degrees or so with at least 3 min over 470 leading up. If you can’t get a second crack that way then yea, maybe they’re happening all at once. I’d watch out for a high input temp during first crack. In my experience most beans will roll along for a while without hitting 2nd if the input is below 480. I’d say a 2 minute gap is something worth shooting for…


#10

When I push the roast, it never seems to bounce back. Maybe I just haven’t tried it on the right bean but once it get into that molasses range all seems lost…maybe because I can’t change to re apply more heat. I’m really not sure. The only time actually now that I think about it was using A profile and waiting (what seemed like forever) for that sweet strawberry to waft out. When that happened I dropped the beans.

I agree with everything for the most part, I hate to knit and pick but they say the devil is in the details. I think where I make the distinction is that whatever energy you put into the beans before you reach the 480*F is a significant factor.

I just used the profile (which if I remember to do so, will be listed below) where I kept enough of something (either tensile strength, water, who knows) where 1st happens at 523F and 2nd at 534F which both were remarkably distinct.

Recently I took what was left of a half batch of a Burundi taken into 2nd with this profile. Into a local coffee shop I previously didn’t know about (I guess it’s good to see the sun every now and then). She said it smelled really good and she’s super pretty and the Honduran on drip was really nice, so I trust her. I brewed the first half of the batch that morning so…, yea, it did taste great for one of my first attempts into 2C. It wasn’t so much of a burnt note as it was just over extracted by my normal brew method (which I keep the same to keep the looking glass on the roast). I like this profile because it isn’t* my immediate use profile and I am kind of kicking myself because this was something I came up with as literally one of my first attempts that was really good. And now I’m left scratching my head bald, wondering if this profile was mixed up with the A profile…please accept obligatory apologies, but I won’t really know until I get another Sumatra in.

*correction: it IS my immediate use profile nowadays, sry for the typo

https://share.ikawa.support/profile_home/?CAESED2XrzV35Upwv96boduI7PsaD1N1bSBtYW4gNS4xNzE0MiIFCAAQ9AMiBgj9ExCODyIGCO0bEIsRIgYIsh4Q+BQiBgj1IhDrFSIGCOwlEJIWKgUIABDJASoGCOwlEMwBMAE6BgiCLRDkAQ==


#11

Great points there, Deven! I did want to include more about the conditions under which my approach to 2nd crack would work, but I got tired of typing! You covered it pretty well.
I’d also say my approach works for all the IKAWA profiles except maybe the Brazil and the shakiso.


#12

Here is the profile I used to get past 2C. The energy built up to 1C is enough to then coast into second. Since it is 12min long it doesn’t all fit into the screenshot.

‘DRTrial#1’ freshly roasted by @ikawacoffee, here’s the recipe #IKAWAHOME - https://share.ikawa.support/profile_home/?CAESELDD7gvpd0pXnTC3Gl+hEHkaCURSVHJpYWwjMSIFCAAQ9AMiBgjkCxDPCSIGCKwWEMsRIgYIiigQ8RMiBgigOBDiEioFCAAQywEqBgjNERDLASoGCKA4EKUBMAE6BgjjPRDXAQ==

I’ve found this a useful all round profile when curtailed to 1C or in between the cracks -especially for African origins washed or natural. Typically stopping around 9 mins. 1C tends to start between 7.30 to 8.15 depending on the bean. I’ve not tried other origins with it to any extent.

I don’t preheat so this is run from cold.


#13

Dropping at 480*F but dropping early I think would help. 14% moisture loss, I’ve tested this profile with some Burundi DP. I’m able to get really dark without getting any burned but with the normal brew it’s a bit too strong(?)/slightly astringent, but there is some hint of fruit and chocolate. Dry aroma is really good, creamy and black cherry. Brewed 7 days post roast.

https://share.ikawa.support/profile_home/?CAESEN+Lx5jf0UgnneOSfZnMwEUaDk1FIGxvd3N0cmV0Y2gxIgUIABD0AyIGCMcFEJ0IIgYIgRMQgw0iBgi2JhDpESIGCKA4ENkTKgUIABDNASoGCKA4ELsBMAE6BgicQBDMAQ==


#14




1C: 454F 10:25, Drop (no 2C) 468F 11:30
16 days post roast and with the last of the Ethiopia Guji wet processed some deep berry syrup (blackberry syrup like) notes appeared very strong in the ground beans. Some of the astringency left, I’m sure this coffee could have peaked even more in the next couple of days but what’s done is done. My aim isn’t to make/find profiles that require such an extensive rest time. My ideal would be in the more immediate profile. But this. Blackberry note is still lingering on my palate, it’s also nice to get such a flavor to come through.