Fan speed issue with Ikawa profiles?


#10

hey guys, @Kvangels thanks for sharing this information with our support team.
As you’ve identified, the issue is specifically related to using Fahrenheit on certain android devices.

The short term fix is to only use degrees Celsius on android.

We’ve been working with the app developers to quickly fix this, and expect to release a new version for android users very soon.


#11

Is the Apple Fahrenheit version getting fixed too?


#12

hey @deven.patel411 - the lowest fan speed allowed should be 60%. Below this the beans generally are not agitated sufficiently, so we’ve prevented it going below 60%.

Bit of IKAWA trivia - but when you get to the cooling mode, the fan speed is more powerful - so 60% in cooling is higher than 60% during the roast.


#13

Slight misunderstanding, when I edit the fan in Fahrenheit the fan button is blocked by the “save” and “cancel” buttons. So I have to go to settings and switch to Celsius to edit the fan and then switch back to Fahrenheit when I want to roast.

Good to know about the cooling fan, I never noticed this before.


#14

Quick update to all on this conversation - we’ve got a new android version of the app ready to release on Monday which will fix this glitch. Thanks for your patience on this.

In the meantime, please continue to use the Celcius only, rather than Fahrenheit.

I’ll update you here when new version is live on Google Play Store.

Have a great weekend, I’m going to be roasting our new season Honduran coffee that we’ll be releasing very soon, just finalising the roast recipe at the moment :slight_smile:


#15

Update to let you know a new Android version of the Home App is live with fix for the Fahrenheit issue now. It can be accessed here :raised_hands:


#16

Hi,
I think there is still something wrong with the profile for the Brazil filter. The fan speed goes down to 60% too fast. For me the beans stopped moving so I had to shake the roaster until the beans had loosed enough in weight. Next time I use this profile I will edit to a more gradual lowering of the fan speed from the 1½ min point and see if it works better. I did not have the Fahrenheit option checked!


#17

I too have noticed that even after the update that the fan speed on several Ikawa profiles still seems inadequate to move the beans. The Brazil filter profile is the most prominent example, but there are others too (Andino Especial Colombia for example). When I was trouble shooting this issue originally I think I stumbled upon the glitch above by accident, but because it was discovered in tandem it appeared (at the time) to be related. Since then I’ve roasted more Ikawa beans with the stock profiles and continue to run into the same issue. Ultimately I have just experimented with increasing the fan speed to a satisfactory value.

What’s disheartening about this is that I purchased the Ikawa beans hoping to use the stock profiles purely for the education–I’ve learned so much since first receiving the roaster and the first World Selection pack years ago. Having a few years of roasting under my belt I was hoping to benefit from the unique roasting education provided by beans & stock profiles provided by the OEM. Having to modify the profiles in order for these to work together ultimately re-inserts the one variable I was hoping to remove from this learning process–me.

I would be curious to know if anyone else is having movement issues with this profile (preferably with Ikawa’s Brazil beans, or at least with other beans weighed to 50 grams). Likewise I’d also be interested to know if someone on the Ikawa team could confirm that when roasting their Brazil beans with this profile that the beans spin the whole time–I’m told that environmental conditions are the culprit here, but having confirmation from the OEM would be reassuring.


#18

Fwiw: I’ve had no problems with oem beans and profiles. Specifically not the Brazilian Sitio Bela Vista or the Columbian, which I roasted a few days ago with the std profile. I roast outdoors when the temperature is above 10C, otherwise indoors at 22C. Indoor (where the bean are kept) the humidity is around 45-60% RH.
I use the latest App on an iPad with Celcius setting, and have the latest firmware on the roaster.
The only time I have experienced lack of bean movement is on profiles I have made from scratch.


#19

I notice I have 3 official Brazilian Sitio profiles in my app. Maybe it would be beneficial to share exactly which profile is causing problems.


#20

Can it perhaps be that the altitude affects the air mass flow and causes the beans to stop moving for some people? High altitude means less air mass flow at the same RPM.


#21

My altitude is 15 meters above sea level so it’s not that.

The profile that came with the latest Android app is the same that was on the beans package.

quote=“nhsnielsen, post:18, topic:1360”]
I use the latest App on an iPad with Celcius setting, and have the latest firmware on the roaster.
[/quote]

Is it something wrong with the Android app?
The profile for the Brazilian Sitio goes very fast (after 1½ min) down to 60% fan speed. I modified to a more gradual lowering of the fan speed and then it worked well. I did also have some problems with the Ethiopian Shakiso Espresso that starts low at 62%. It did also stop for a while but I didn’t have to shake the roaster.
I have the latest firmware and have upgraded the Android app. I use the Celsius setting. I’ve only had the roaster for about two weeks so it’s a new machine. The roaster seems to work as it should. If the profile works a it should with an iPad then there may be something wrong with the Android app and the commands to the roaster. I don’t like this because it could mean that NO profile works as it was intended on Android. Was the profiles made with iOS?

I think this could be a serious problem. If I modify the profiles to work with the machine as it is now and also make my own profiles for other beans. IF it is a bug in the software and it is corrected do I have to make new profiles then after the update?

What does IKAWA say about this? I don’t have an Iphone or an Ipad so I can’t test if it works differently but IKAWA must have tested the profiles on both platforms?


#22

I would contact IKAWA directly.
This is really a user forum and therefore as much opinions as facts. IKAWA obviously monitors the forum but don’t always read/respond to these threads.


#23

I have contacted IKAWA directly and they have admitted that the fan speed may be too low. Then I didn’t know that @nhsnielsen has no problems with iOS. That’s why I wonder if this could be an Android problem? I have contacted IKAWA again and pointed to this discussion.


#24

I may have an opportunity to use an iPhone later this weekend to roast instead of my Android. I will give that a shot and report back.


#25

Today I borrowed an iPhone, installed the Ikawa Home app on it, and roasted two batches of the Ikawa Brazil beans by scanning the Filter Roast profile on the back of the bag. I roasted one batch with the “Use Fahrenheit” option checked–the other without. I’m both cases the beans stopped moving once the fan speed lowered to 60%.

This confirms that the behavior is consistent between iOS and Android.

For additional reference, my elevation is less than 100 ft above sea level, and the relative humidity outside is ~78%. I roast indoors (with no humidifiers) under my oven hood.


#26

Thank You very much! This is actually good! This means that the problem is with the profiles that the fan speed is set a little low. Maybe there are different batches of the coffee? Maybe @nhsnielsen is using a different profile? This means also that I can modify the profiles and I have not to be afraid that an upgrade of the app will change the results.
Nothing wrong with the machine. Nothing wrong with the firmware or software! Good! I guess the problem is solved?
I have made a small modification of the profile for the Brazil Sitio that works well for me. I don’t know how to publish profiles but the two changes I made was that I let the fan speed be lowered gradually by taking away the drastic lowering to 60% at 1 min 30 sec and let it decrease gradually and I did also extend the roasting time with 30 seconds. I have also tried another profile that has a more gradual increase of temperature and an extended roasting time to 9 min and 30 sec but I can’t taste much difference between the roasts with this bean


#27

Fwiw: I too used standard profiles scanned off the bag for the two referenced examples. So it will have to be environmental factor causing the difference.


#28

Morning all - thanks @Kvangels for digging into this and @nrdlnd & @nhsnielsen for your interest in this.

For the Filter roast recipe on the Esperanca Brazilian coffee, we’ve found that the airflow is very borderline. When we roast these beans, they slow down as the air flow drops off, although for us they’ve not actually stopped moving and sat still. As you’ve speculated, there are probably environmental factors that may make them not move at all, or move just enough - but lesson learnt that we should not sail so close to the wind on our recommended recipes.

If you experience the challenges with beans not moving, there are two solutions; give the roaster a bit of a nudge which can jolt the beans into rotating slowly again, and next roast turn up the airflow by 5-10%.

Wider insight - if you keep the same temperature curve, but change the airflow significantly, it will have a noticeable effect on the roast. Lower airflow tends to make for a slightly darker roast. When the beans are moving slowly as they do on this Brazilian roast recipe, you get more conductive heat transfer between the beans, as well as the convective heat transfer - but on an IKAWA it’s important the beans don’t just sit still for long.


#29

Thank You Alex!
I made a modification to the original profile for Esperanca Brazilian according to your recommendation by raising the fan speed at the second point with 5%. This time the beans didn’t stop rotating. I did also extend the roasting time with about 40 seconds as I want the beans a little darker. I did taste the beans after two days rest. I think this is the best roast I’ve got with this bean as I like it a little darker, a more “Nordic taste”. You maybe know that the “Nordic” countries Finland, Norway, Iceland, Denmark, The Netherlands, Sweden are drinking most coffee in the world? I think we like it a little darker most of the time. That you seem to prefere lighter roast is it because you are tea drinkers in the UK? I don’t say it’s wrong and it could be that you are coming with a new dimension in the taste of coffee? Now I will try a dark espresso roast with the same bean as my new espresso machine will soon land. It’s not the same that comes with the beans but one that @sorentornquist published. I may also try this profile with some Indonesian Sumatra and Indian Monsooned Malabar. Both are Bio and Fair Trade. Edit:This does actually not belong to this thread but I tred the above profile @sorentornquist with the Brazilian and it worked ok. This profile was way too hot for the Sumatran Mandheling and I will try another profile. I will not report it here. I will also try some other profile for the Monsooned Malabar. I may start another thread for what I miss in the profile library or maybe I haven’t found a library with different starting profiles for different roasting degrees? I think the information is to be found but it’s in different places. Anyway this is a fantastic machine with great possibilities! I do very much like that it’s using mainly convective heat as it’s a energy efficient way of transferring heat. Our ordinary owen has among other settings hot air that we use almost exclusively. Most recipes are given for “ordinary” owens but we transform them to hot air and I can say that we get equal results or even better with shorter times and lower temperatures and at the same time saving a lot of energy. I’m not sure that different kinds of heat transfer (convective conductive and radiating) is so important for the result of roasting coffee beans! Especially with a machine like this where you can steer temperature, roasting time and fan speed. It’s about getting the profile right. Maybe I’m “opening a can of worms” here?