Have You Ever Seared Some Meat?


#1

To get into the meat of things here…charge temp that carries into green then yellow “Drying”. I thought it would be cool if we could ask some questions about charge temps and its effect on the roast overall and mainly the effects of the momentum as it carries towards 1st during the different stages: Pale, Green, Yellow, Gold.etc

I’ll start by saying that coffee beans are a lot dryer of a material than any meat. Maybe that is the only reason we can cook this bean by almost complete convection. We cook it by removing the water so the bean can brown. But how much initial heat is good…for a high charge profile or a low charge profile?

  • For a High Charge Profile, 200*C/2min are you able to get a full development of the acids before reaching 1st crack? Is that even what happens for a high charge? Or is the development happening post 1st Crack? I’ve noticed during our conversations @pavel @jboutte88 @cooley that you prefer dropping at least a minute after 1C, on Cooley’s I couldn’t bring myself to roast the Colombia Inzá Cresta El Hato past 30s 1C start. Are you able to get clear, distinct flavors? No matter how hard I try I do not get very clear flavors in the cup, my thinking is that my charge temp and time of charge is just off but I don’t have enough beans to do both low and high charge temp trials.

For low temps charge (200-125*C/2-3min) its like throwing a darts blindfolded in a way. But the more I try to alter the profile by the tail end it doesn’t make AS SIGNIFICANT of a difference as changing the beginning. It may seem obvious to some but I feel like now I am trying to find a more perfect charge - end of dry (yellow) setting than just getting the best end temp. (For the end temp I’ll start another thread) However the end results are significant. The flavor is really there, it really is remarkable to drink a cup of coffee while staring at it. I am getting slowly more familiar./comfortable with the feel of roasting this way. It’s like I’m pushing a boulder up a small hill, and the running start on a flat area before the hill is the Charge. When looking at my makeshift ET as long as the temp doesn’t stall I think I’m ok with the cup. At lest then there is no baked or flat flavors if I don’t go to far past the start of 1st crack. Then all I have to adjust is the temp or stretches of the segments and length after 1C for flavor developments.


#2

What exactly do you mean by charge temp Deven? Preheating or a different slope in the beginning?


#3

yes, that part where some of us drop in at a high temp, or that 1st ramp basically is what I consider the charge. In succession segments are pale to green to yellow, yellow to gold or brown and then the finish. Those color transitions is what I usually try to achieve for those segments.


#4

Ok … well its hard to give unswers to your questions, as that would require tasting side by side the same coffee roasted both ways. I have now at hand quite a lot of coffee to roast, with some origins that would be nice to test this on, so, I guess the hi charge would be a profile with the “spike” I like to use for africans, so … what would you say a good profile to test against would be? (African beans - ethiopia, tanzania or congo)


#5

These questions are not easy. This is not necessary have to be done side by side, though, side/side is always a more accurate way of testing… If you are roasting two completely different ways and getting similar results I think there is a fault in the latter part of the roast. This test is for all beans, I listed a slope to define the speed, the shape of the profile is not my concern. Any observations or coorelations would be interesting to hear. This question is more of the rate/speed and which we go through each phase and its effect on the other stages.


#6

Ah, seems I may not completely understand what you mean … the slope you mention is only for the first phase and you dont mind the shape after?
What I ment was unswer to your question if we get full development of those acids … its something I can not be sure of untill I taste a roast that shows way more development on the same bean can be achieved. I think there is quite some room for improvement of cause, just not sure how big it is, because I have no reference point of some much better developed sample of the same bean.

In my experience so far, the slope in the first phase up to pale may not be one fits all … when I switch profiles and test what effect they have, its clean sometimes that a bean likes profile with spike or steep slope in the beginning, and another one even simillar origin does not like it at all and works better with less agressive one. I thought its a density thing, but, does not seem to be that easy.

However, my main interest now is findng a way how to get the inside of the bean to the same colour as outside, not overheating the inside … so far no clue how to make that happen, so far everything I tried did not help much. But I can do some batches on different profiles and report back my findings, to keep my head from this problem - just need to understand what should the second profile be like.


#7

For this discussion I wanted to focus on the charge, the effect the charge has on the rest of the roast is important.

I think that is the end question. How to roast coffee. Like you noted coffee’s like different charges. Since I do slower charges people that use high charges I would try to guess at what slope and for how long and when to stop the charge, for example: with the slope is still at 200*F/min, how long do I let that run for…either a) until the beans get bright green b)before they green or c)after they green?

Trial and error and taking notes because only you can see how the first profile affected the bean and the second is what you want to try and change it. Understanding that by splitting the segments into specific sections and how the change in one segment affects the whole profile in order to carry the heat built in the bean though the roast. How I try and create an even bean is understanding that the end temp is going to be the color of the bean and the amount of energy put into the bean before the end will determine the inside color.