How is the best way to begin to roast a new green beans?


#1

The Ikawa Home app is a perfect point to begin with predefined beans, but if I want to start in a new way, could anyone tell me how to use the roast curves?


#2

@asanchezmarin … hello and wellcome :slight_smile:
Please have a look here
How to find the perfect roast for new green coffee
Me and Deven both have written a bit about how we approach exactly that …

Let me know if that helped :wink:


#3

Thank you Pavel. I am going to read this post.


#4

I have read the post “How to find the perfect roast for new green coffee”, and it’s a similar way I did for my gree beans. I have acceptable results but I am not perfectly happy. I start to use Ikawa Guatemala profile for Typica Beans from Veracruz (Mexico), and extended the last point for 1.30" more. But do you have something know how about how the curves in the Ikawa Home produces the results? or it’s a trial-error approach?

Thanks


#5

And what exactly makes you not too happy about your results?
I mean what is not to your liking, which way would you like to stir your results?


#6

Taste, in my opinion the final result is far away in an ideal roast. I am looking for a balanced cup: Mexico’s beans are too acidity. Do you have any recomendation for this type of beans.


#7

Roast longer or hotter. The more information on roasting you acquire, the easier approaching a roast will become.

Maybe that is too simple and answer, but your question is too broad. If you wanted to know how to stretch out the developments given a profile you listed…I could add my opinion. If you say you added a 1:30 that’s great but that info doesnt help me to help you. Did you do it by sustaining the same temp or are you following the same ROR…there are a lot more details needed.


#8

Yes, as Deven said … I would add, that you should find out at what place on the line from 1st ceack to and through 2nd crack is your prefered taste and ballance. I would prolong the most succesfull profile, and do a set of roasts spaced from like 30s after 1st spaced 30s apart, as far as you want to go, and taste them after like 2days or so…
You should be able to see where its the most interesting fir you (my pivot point is somewhere around a minute after the end of 1st Crack)
There is a lot in how you get there throught different paths/curves … but i would start by simply manipulating one profile and doing a set of samples at various stages of development.


#9

Hey guys, thanks and I agree. @asanchezmarin, usually a longer and hotter roast will help bring the acidity down and the body up. Try editing a profile and adding 30sec to the roast and 4 degree hotter. If this is a good direction, keep adjusting. I’ve attached a video showing how you can easily edit a roast profile:


#10

Thanks for the suggestion. I found the original profile slightly acidic for me and after some experiment increased the the hottest point to 260% which although not perfect was more in line with my espresso taste
I will now reduce the hottest point but extend the timing slightly
I also need to understand the impact of a he fan on the roast
My only regret so far is that I am experimenting with good quality beans and wasting much of it in the process
Articals and comments on espresso very welcome


#11

@Tel47 Hello Terry Jones … sure it hurts me too when I have to throw away high quality beans (but it almost does not happen to me … I try to drink even not the best ones … to give my brain some feedback :smiley: ) but … on the other hand its just 50g if something goes a bit wrong.
As I have written elsewhere, my approach to not to wait what comes from a profile that would have a preset end to it, is to extend the profile a few minutes longer … and watch and smell closely, stopping the roast by hand (marking down the times of start and end of first crack and my manual end of the roast) … its usually quite safe after coupple of trials, to see the colour, smell from the exhaust, and time after 1st crack … to get to a point where I am pretty sure I will drink what have a roasted. Usually for me … I can not drink only underdeveloped ones where you have that peas and all sorts of tastes of underdevelopment, and too much roasted where there is strong roast flavour … ones that are slightly over or under my optimal, go into my very own lab for testing (meaning I drink it and taste all that it has to offer … its just 4 espressos anyway ) I think its a bit safer than setting some exact profile and time, knowing for sure when it ends that I would wait like a minute more but … I just cant do anything about it so … next coffee please :frowning: . Its not that hard to adjust from the noted end time when you have the best one.


#12

Thanks for your helpful response. Some of the issues for me is understanding how and and in what way the incremental changes of the profile impact on the final roast
To say nothing of achieving the appropriate grind to maximum the flavours in the cup


#13

Thank you Pavel. I would try your recommendations. You gave great tips.


#14

You are wellcome :). And as Deven mentioned … make just one adjustment at a time … change one variable. That helps with understanding.
The same goes to grind size … change only that one variable and all gets easier. I do quite the opossite actually … I do not change my grind for espresso unless I get a very difficult one that does not work with my main settings. I have a grind size that I learned to work with, and I vary other parts … dose, tamp stregth, pressure … to get extraction I want to see … this works very well for me. Also I usually change only one part … either dose, or tamp or pressure …


#15

Happy to help. Its great to have this place alive :slight_smile:


#16

Hi @Tel47! Your situation is common for all roasters. It’s about learning how each bean will develop, and even professionals can never know how best to roast a coffee without trial and tasting.

Our recommendations are to find a IKAWA profile you enjoy, and know the taste of well, then, make 1 small change. For example, move the end temperature 4 C higher. See if you can taste the difference not just generally but in acidity, in body, in sweetness and maybe the tasting notes are slightly different.

Afterwards, try the opposite and move the end temperature 4C lower. Again, how does this affect acidity, body, sweetness and flavours.

After this, the experimenting can continue with other coffees! We will have iterative “classes” and profile people can follow along with. Lots to develop there so give us time but we aim to have the first out in the early new year!


#17

@Geoff_IKAWA WOW - really something to look for in the first part of the year! I have been wishing for material like this for some time now. So … feeling happy :)))))
I can also say, that if you would make a workshop on sensorical assessment of coffee, I would try very hard to be able to come. Have plans to take some workshops here around to get some ground, hopefully with Gwilym … but if I knew you have one coming I would save my sack of coins for you.


#18

No classes on that in the near future unfortunately. We’re going to start with roasting :slight_smile: Gwilym would be an excellent teacher for this!


#19

Ok, good to know. And … yes I expect to learn a lot from him. It was just me thinking that he has quite the reputation and a lots of people coming to him for tuition (jeez - hope i spelled it right :slight_smile: ) so if I could direct my money to Ikawa to help you grow your teaching arsenal I would do so instead.


#20

Thanks, much appreciated!