Pro -> Home profile conversion

roasting

#6

@deven.patel411 and @stephen.pickering21
Thank you so much for your experience and thoughts. Well yeah I didn’t really expect something magical(?) from the profiles but was interesting to see most of them roast really short (around 5 mins) and charging hot. Wondered what it would bring, but again as Deven mentioned, yeah maybe it"s natural to roast very light for competition, thus they are usually really short time.
Thank you always for sharing your experience!


#7

I think experimenting is great fun and certainly would not discourage it.
Looking back I was roasting around 5m30 inc 1min heatup before manually dropping and had mixed results. Some really good ones but I was brewing next day.
I think short roasts can be great as next day roasts but maybe don’t age as well? It may be they pick up again after a couple of weeks or longer.

These days I tend to aim around 9 to 10 days resting and roast both for filter and espresso.


#8

It is many years since I tried the IKAWA PRO (v2) And as I recall you press a preheat button and when ready you are instructed to drop.
From this IKAWA PRO (v3) profile, the roast was started when the inlet temperature was measuring 175°C.
Yellow=Inlet Red=Exhaust


#9

That is really interesting to look at that graph with inlet and exhaust. It looks like they stay very evenly spaced the entire time. Also no noticable blips on exhaust for FC or anything. Does the crash and flick that Scott Rao talks about not apply to fluid bed roasting?


#10

Wow thanks for the graphs. This tells a lot.

  • This was a taken after the preheat right?
  • it seems like we need the initial spike to match the exhaust temp, even with the preheat. I guess we pretty much need that initial temp spike to mimic any Pro profiles, or without it seems like we will go through a pretty slow drying phase.

Another thing I noticed is that the inlet to exhaust temp difference is pretty steady, at around 40c?


#11

I tried the Tim Wendelboe profile converted to Home,
with preheating at 197c for 1 min, and dropping the beans and ending at 240c~241,
with two different beans,

  1. Ecuador La Papaya Typica Mejorado Natural (which heat up pretty quick)
    and,
  2. Colombia Pink Bourbon

The 1) finished right after the 1st crack started,
and for 2) I couldn’t even hear the first crack.

I’m curious if this is intended or my beans just need more heat.
The 1) had great flavors and smelled sweet from whole beans, but it was pretty acidic after V60 drip.
I wonder how they brew these super lightly roasted coffee.

It was light enough to jam my Niche Zero grinder.


#12

I think they let them rest for weeks or even a month. I have actually been experimenting with ways to shorten that as I don’t have the patience to wait 2 weeks or longer to test. I have tried longer times of open air rest and even pre grinding 12 or 24 hours in advance. Both really help with releasing gas and taking away grassiness, but flavor is flat. I have found myself gravitating towards more medium roast, even though that is not my preference, just to use quicker. If i find something that works I will pass along! I am starting to wonder how these light roasts I buy are good within 1-2 days of being roasted. I am starting to question the validity of those dates, they must let that stuff sit awhile and just stamp a recent date on it.


#13

For me, 1) wasn’t that grassy. It had nice hints of fruits but just too acidic. Maybe I just needed to grind finer and pour much slower…

What are the roasteries you buy light roasted beans? Just curious what are the best examples of light roast.

Just a random guess, but they might cool down the beans really really slowly? So that it doesnt go darker, but still in a pretty warm environment for a longer time so that they gas out much quicker?


#14

Interesting thought on the cooldown, that makes logical sense though for sure. Maybe worth testing quicker cooldown once I get machine back.

I have a localish roaster that does great light roasts called ross street roasting. He does fluid bed, so feel like its something comparable to what we can do on ikawa, and I can find some of the green beans he uses on la bodega to see if I can match what he does. If he has any Ethiopian guji left, that is amazing. My wife can never taste anything in coffee, but that one she text me at work and said why did you put blueberries in my coffee this morning lol. Probably the best of the best for me though would be kuma and heart, just more expensive and no ability to get their green coffee to try roasting.


#15

Forgot to mention too good idea on the grind size. I recently started using a clever dripper in order to take out variables from comparing my roasts, but it knocks out a lot of acidity to brew that style too, so you could try that too.


#16

This has also happened to me with lighter roasts, I haven’t tried the slow feeding that James Hoffman is making popular on the YouTube.


#17

I have been doing a lot of reading lately on home barista forum on roasting. Someone there made a good point about trying emulate pro profiles with home machine. If the pro model is able to follow an ET line, it would have to make constant adjustments to intake air based on origin, moisture, ambient temp etc. The pro model is actually really cool when you think about what it has to do to make that happen. That being said, i think it is futile to try to match pro profiles.


#18

I can’t agree that trying to copy a Pro profile is futile per se, but if someone doesn’t know how to adjust profiles in general and given different beans inherent nature and the purpose (brew method) then it would be futile. But if you see a profile and you know the range the transitions and markers take place on the Home, then looking at Pro profile for a Pacamara or Geisha then it would be a nice starting point as a general marker to start with that and then make adjustments based on your bean and purpose, et cetera.


#19

Good points, are you crunchybean over on HB forum?


#20

A twenty character answer: yes


#21

That a great resource. Can’t tell you how bad I want a BT probe after reading the what is baked coffee thread. Unfortunately my wife is on the verge of killing me already after buying an ikawa and forte within 2 months, so not in the cards.


#22

Thanks, I recently bought a very cheap oven thermocouple with pid from Amazon. I was convinced for a long time that having another probe will be helpful but as I have been roasting I don’t think it really helps because the beans are such a small mass, and airflow fast getting a reading of the actual beans is not clear. My next endeavor would be to make a custom faceplate for an IR probe but again I have a lingering feeling it is not really useful since the bean follows in parallel sontightly to the air temp. I think the end all be all is to just map out very specifically what beans like what heat profile for what flavors you want to get out of it. Knowing how to adjust the inlet profile based on cupping and knowing how fan effects the heat transfer/moisture loss. Knowing those things, having extra probes that can’t read those things, won’t help. Looking at Pro profiles this is apparent because the BT/ET follow each other so closely. And those profiles are like straight lines anyways. When I was looking at nicer probes there were some with hygrometers and magnehelic (air speed) with a thermocouple. If I learned anything from cooking and Rao, we are just managing the moisture loss, so seeing more how the beans react is better imo.

Edit: Or I can be completely wrong, I forgot to say: I am still trying out the probe, my working hypothesis that it is not useful but I would happy to see the results either way.


#23

Really interesting thread.
Not sure I have much to add.

I did a similar thing when I first got my IKAWA. But this was because I was new to roasting, and liked the Rob Hoos approach. Seeing that he had a pro-profile that I could use as a foundation meant that I could make the intellectual leap from a traditional roaster to the IKAWA.

I came to the realisation a couple of months ago that there is no such thing as the “perfect” roast, just a world of possible flavour profiles for each bean, and I want to spend as much time enjoying my coffee as experimenting, So I keep things simple, and try not to get lost in all the possibilities. I still use the same profile as my foundation, and vary the temperature based on when I hit first crack, and mostly pay with the development time and finishing temperature. That gives me more than enough tools to play with flavour. Once I hit something delicious I stick with it. This then gives me the stability to dial* in and enjoy. *another place with endless possibilities.

Like other hear I am definitely allowing more time for resting too, and this is making a huge difference (my current natural is most delicious at 10 days).


#24

Definitely agree.
Seems like development time and ending temperature had much more effect than any other factors.
Ramping up fast, or slow and things didnt have much difference.
However i realized fast roasting gives more clear flavors and slow roast gives more complexity but muddy. So it seems like total roast time matters.
So i’m currently only playing around with DT and ending temp.


#25

Same here. They are the two that seem to have the biggest impact on flavour for me.

Out of interest what is your average roast time? I’d be interested to bring a bit more clarity to my roasts, so would be interested to play with that a bit.